Pinterest Marketing For More Organic Traffic with Kate Ahl

Pinterest isn’t just for recipes and travel inspo. Here’s how to use it for real business growth:

What if your blog could keep bringing in traffic for years—without needing to perform on Instagram or churn out more content?

That’s exactly what Kate Ahl, founder of Simple Pin Media, helps business owners do with Pinterest. In this conversation, we break down how to actually use Pinterest as a traffic driver (not just a digital vision board), why it works so well for content you’ve already created, and the surprisingly simple way to start leveraging it today.

If you’ve written blog posts, launched a podcast, or created freebies for your email list—this is how to make them work harder with less effort.

In this episode, we cover:

• The biggest Pinterest myth most business owners still believe
• A surprising example of keyword research that might change your SEO strategy
• The #1 goal Kate recommends for most service providers on Pinterest
• How to actually track success on the platform (without obsessing over views)
• Kate’s answer to “How often should I pin?”
• The difference between Pinterest keywords vs. Google SEO
• A personal traffic comparison that might change how you use Instagram

Your Next Step:
If you’re already creating pillar content—make it do more. This is exactly the kind of repurposing we help you build into a sustainable marketing rhythm. Start by grabbing my free messaging audit to make sure your content is set up to convert.

Connect with our Guest:

Visit Kate at simplepinmedia.com and subscribe to her Pinterest Made Simple newsletter.

Join Copy Clarity Club to be confident your copy will convert with weekly feedback and support.

Transcript

(0:00) Welcome to the values first marketing podcast. (0:03) I'm Megan Kachigan and I help business owners like you stay in your zone of (0:08) genius without making marketing feel like a full-time job on top of serving (0:12) your clients. I'm sharing what's working now with simple content systems, (0:18) copy that elevates your thought leadership and messaging that makes your audience (0:21) feel seen not sold to.(0:24) I'm your trusted expert in turning your voice values and vision into a (0:28) sustainable marketing system that attracts aligned clients and grows your (0:32) business in a way that sustainable unmistakable and irresistible (0:37) all without sacrificing your time, your voice, or your piece. (0:41) You're in the right place. Let's do this.(0:44) All right. Kate all is here with us. (0:46) She is the owner and founder of simple pin media, (0:49) a Pinterest marketing agency.(0:52) And I am so glad to have you on here because I know you work with online (0:56) business owners among other people. Because when I think of Pinterest, (1:00) I think of travel recipes, home decor, (1:04) maybe outfit inspiration, things like that. But what, like why Pinterest, (1:10) what place do we as online business owners have on Pinterest? (1:14) That's such a great question because people have to frame up where all these (1:18) social platforms fit in their marketing.(1:20) And immediately we put Pinterest in the bucket of social media, (1:23) but it's definitely not social media, even though you're right. (1:27) It does have these like really big broad niches and food and travel and all (1:30) these things, (1:31) but people approach the platform very different than they would Instagram. (1:35) Like I have a common saying, Instagram is a bar.(1:38) Pinterest is a library where people approach the library and they want to look (1:42) around. They don't want anyone talking to them. (1:44) And so Pinterest is search and discovery.(1:46) It's definitely one of those pieces of our marketing that we don't want to (1:51) ignore because it's search and discovery it's cold marketing. (1:55) And it's a place for you to engage with people that never would have engaged (1:58) with you on any other type of platform because their searches are unbranded. (2:03) Meaning they are just searching for phrases like they would on Google or like (2:07) they would on YouTube.They're not attached to a brand. (2:11) Whereas I find with like Instagram and Tik TOK, (2:14) they're so married to following a brand or following a story. (2:18) So then what we love about Pinterest is that there's opportunity in the big (2:22) niches and in the small ones to get in front of people because there's (2:26) thousands, millions, (2:28) billions of searches every single day around every type of topic.(2:33) Okay. Do you have, okay, well, let's go into, (2:38) so what is copy? What does Pinterest copywriting look like for this? (2:43) What kinds of things do we need to be considering when we are (2:48) writing? (2:48) Maybe it's the description of the pin or the blog that it's leading to, (2:52) or what is your recommendation there? (2:55) Okay. So copy is broken up into two parts.(2:57) There's copy for the algorithm and there's copy for the actual person. (3:01) So when we see any type of description on Pinterest, (3:04) whether it is a board name, a board description, a pin title, (3:08) a pin description, (3:09) these are things that auto-populate when you go to upload a pin or they don't (3:13) auto-populate, but you can see the form there. (3:16) These are things we call algorithmic benefits.(3:19) So when the algorithm is running on the search and discovery piece, (3:23) what they're looking for is key terms that are already being searched on the (3:27) platform. And Pinterest has the search bar. (3:30) And when you go to the search bar, it auto-populates what people are searching.(3:35) Those are the key words that it's looking for. (3:37) And so when we complete these descriptions, we always want to have, of course, (3:41) natural sounding sentences, not like a robot, (3:44) but we want to get straight to the point and very clear about exactly what (3:49) people are putting into the search bar. So that's number one.(3:53) Number two is the copy for the people. (3:55) And this tends to be more on the image, which is interesting because (4:00) Pinterest. (4:01) So there is a little bit of an algorithmic benefit because Pinterest will read the (4:05) text on the image.(4:07) And so you definitely want to bring your keyword into it, (4:10) but you can get really crafty with your copy. (4:12) You can get really creative with it and you can take the actual image (4:17) and the copy, and you can marry them together to tell a story. (4:21) And a lot of people have a big difficulty with this because they will have a (4:27) blog post, right? And it's say copywriting tips for bloggers.(4:32) And then they'll take, and they'll put that exact phrase on the image. (4:35) But maybe there's a little bit more creativity that needs to be used when you (4:40) bring over your copy there. And maybe it's something like, (4:43) have you ever thought about copywriting as a blogger? (4:46) Do bloggers have to think about copywriting? (4:49) Something that is a little bit more catchy because the Pinterest user, (4:53) when they're on their phone, they're just looking at images.(4:58) That description at the bottom, it doesn't populate for them to read. (5:02) And most of the time, even if they click to close up, (5:05) they're not actually reading. (5:07) They can gauge what they want within a second or less.(5:11) And so that's how we leverage copy on the platform in those two different ways. (5:16) Awesome. Okay.(5:17) That is a great distinction between copy for the algorithm and copy for the (5:19) person. Cause you really got to think about both. (5:23) And I think most people default to copywriting for the person because it's you (5:27) and what you want to be seen as and your brand and all of those things.(5:31) And then on the other side of that is like, well, (5:33) if you ever want to be found organically, naturally, (5:36) without constantly putting out content, (5:40) you need to play to the algorithm a little bit by using those strategic (5:45) key terms, keywords that are searchable on the platform. (5:49) Yes. And I'll say this really quickly, (5:52) because something you just said made me think about this because oftentimes we (5:57) have this idea of what we think people are going to be searching, (5:59) but it might not match the key phrase that actual Pinterest users are using.(6:04) So a great example that I share is there's a vegan and then there's plant-based (6:09) your audience might be searching plant-based, but you're vegan, (6:14) right? Or vice versa. (6:15) So if you have a very closely aligned key term that you're wanting to target (6:20) for, go to Pinterest, (6:22) just pick up your phone and search what it is it's populating for that (6:26) particular term, (6:27) because maybe even a phrase that you use on your blog or even over on (6:32) Instagram is not something that the Pinterest user uses. (6:36) So do your research a little bit just on the platform to see if that term is even (6:41) being used.(6:42) Interesting. Okay. And then, (6:46) so what types of things, (6:49) I don't know if there's a generalization that could be made here, (6:51) what types of things are working best on Pinterest for online business owners? (6:55) Because I think like, if I'm looking for a copywriter, (6:59) I'm not necessarily going to turn to Pinterest to search for that.(7:03) But what types of things, (7:05) like based on your clients or just your, with your experience in general, (7:10) what types of things are working best on Pinterest for online business owners? (7:15) Yeah, I will say right off the bat, (7:17) online business is going to get drastically lower views than somebody who's B (7:21) to C, right? Business to consumer, (7:23) because Pinterest is first and foremost, a consumer led platform, (7:28) but that doesn't mean there isn't any place for the business piece. (7:32) And so I will say to people, (7:34) if you are looking to create a new revenue stream, (7:38) then try Pinterest for six to nine months, (7:42) putting your basic questions on there, because there's a couple of reasons why. (7:46) One is Pinterest will get populated in Google search results.(7:51) It's not as much as it was before, (7:53) but a lot of times if somebody is searching on Google and Pinterest has a great (7:58) answer in the board or in the pin itself that gets populated sometimes. (8:03) So don't overlook that. And then number two, (8:07) Pinterest users often have high intent and low intent.(8:10) So there might be a time when they're searching for maybe productivity tips in (8:15) business, (8:16) and then something comes along and it has to do with copywriting. (8:19) They might not be actually searching that, but that's their low intent. (8:23) They're like, Oh, this is really interesting.So for example, with me, (8:27) I use it for my business and I'm B to B. (8:30) So I'm looking for clients that are interested in Pinterest marketing. (8:33) I'm going real basic to even target things like, (8:37) how do you clean up your Pinterest boards? (8:39) How do you upload a video to Pinterest? (8:41) Cause I know these two things can be found on Pinterest and on Google. (8:46) I'm trying to leverage both, but my expectations are, (8:51) I'm never going to compare my traffic to somebody who's business to consumer (8:54) because I know that they're going to get so much bigger traffic, (8:57) but I want Pinterest in my suite of marketing options (9:03) because it is a search and discovery and it's a traffic driver.(9:07) That's the biggest reason that I use it. (9:09) Yes. Yes.I think the traffic driver piece is huge and it's, (9:14) I think often overlooked in marketing plans in general. (9:18) And as a copywriter who I'm like writing all of these things, (9:20) so many people focus on the sales page, the emails, and then it's like, well, (9:25) if you don't have enough traffic going through those things, it's, you know, (9:30) not going to be as effective no matter how great the copy is. (9:34) Yeah, exactly.(9:36) Yeah. Yeah. (9:36) So Pinterest can be a great place to bulk up that, (9:40) that traffic and it can't like, (9:44) there are paid ads on Pinterest, but it can, (9:46) you can see great success with just completely organic too.(9:50) Yeah, exactly. A lot of our clients are non-paid organic, (9:54) but a lot of our clients try to marry the whole paid and non-paid together to (9:58) try to boost getting more conversions. (10:02) Maybe their goal is email leads.(10:04) Maybe their goal is just traffic. Oftentimes business owners, (10:09) digital products are a little bit harder to sell when you're business to (10:12) business on Pinterest, (10:13) but it's definitely easier to get people to your website to potentially opt in (10:18) for your email list. That's the number one way that I use Pinterest.(10:22) That's number one way I recommend most business owners use it because Pinterest (10:26) users are cold. They don't know you. They're kind of at this like, okay, (10:30) this is weird.I just found this person about copywriting. (10:34) Okay. Maybe I'll just explore and see what it is they're talking about.(10:37) I'm not quite ready to say yes, but maybe I'll just kind of explore around. (10:41) So that's this way that we might have multiple interactions with the Pinterest (10:45) user. The next time they open up Pinterest, (10:47) especially because when somebody clicks on an image, (10:51) they close up and then they go to your website.(10:53) That gives the algorithm a signal that that person is interested in this type of (10:58) content. Then the next time they open up Pinterest, (11:01) your content shows up in their feed. (11:04) So it's another opportunity to get re-engagement.(11:07) Yeah. Oh, that's good. Okay.And I love that it, (11:11) or you at least recommend like the best way to use it is to opt into the email (11:15) list because Instagram and whatever, (11:20) these days are like the cool kids way of, you know, marketing, (11:25) but oftentimes and not always, (11:27) they forget about the email list and the power that is there of owning your (11:32) email list and having that regular connection and engagement (11:36) with your subscribers who are seeing it way more often in your inbox than, (11:40) you know, any algorithm. (11:44) So I love that we are pushing people there and then (11:48) what does success look like with Pinterest SEO or content creation? (11:52) When you think of like your most successful clients, (11:56) what do they have in common? (11:59) One thing they have in common is they create content consistently. (12:03) So I know that for people who've been in business a long time, (12:06) creating content can be a huge slog.It can, you can burn out, (12:10) you can become overwhelmed. (12:11) I have done a podcast and a blog post for eight years now. (12:15) And there are some days where I'm like, (12:16) I don't even know if I can come up with a new idea.But at the same time, (12:21) I know that every time I do that, it's like putting a log on a fire. (12:26) And that fire is going to continue to grow. (12:28) And so the number one thing is that clients who are successful on Pinterest have (12:33) new content that they're putting on the platform.(12:36) This can also be actually, if you create on YouTube, (12:39) you can share YouTube videos, not the full length, (12:42) but a short to Pinterest and then link it to the full length one. (12:46) That's another thing that I do as well. So that's one right there.(12:51) Number two is going to be, (12:52) they really know that Pinterest is a part of this whole ecosystem of (12:57) traffic driving. So for me, um, (13:01) I'll just share as my business owner perspective, your Instagram, (13:05) TikTok, Facebook, they're exhausting to me. I don't really use them, (13:08) but Pinterest, Google, YouTube, I do use.(13:11) And I do put in the effort because I know that it's driving traffic to build my (13:16) email list. And that's the number one thing that I care about. (13:18) So when it comes to Pinterest, I want to be optimizing for keywords.(13:23) I want to be paying attention to what's working and what's not working. (13:27) And what I've discovered for me is that how to posts work (13:31) really well on Pinterest because it introduces people to me and (13:36) it shows my authority in a space. And I find that also with our clients, (13:41) this is the same thing as well.(13:42) When they are building content that really is just building block content that (13:47) shows how to, or that really shows features of a product, (13:52) whether it's a physical product or a digital product, (13:55) when you go back to square one with Pinterest and you don't go on the (13:59) assumption that they know me, which I think is very common on Instagram. (14:03) I know I struggle with this as well. I open up the platform and I just, I mean, (14:07) I assume like, well, you followed me, you must know me.You're part of this story. (14:12) Pinterest users are not part of that. (14:13) So if you're really good at going back to this place of, okay, (14:17) they don't know me.These are my new, (14:20) maybe this is my step one through five to getting started with (14:25) XYZ, or maybe these are my FAQs. (14:28) Those are the people who are successful because they don't go on the assumption (14:32) that the Pinterest audience knows them and they're regularly pinning. (14:37) So this is where a lot of people get confused.In fact, (14:40) the number one question people ask me is, okay, (14:42) how many times do I need to pin per day? (14:44) And it's kind of the cart before the horse question, (14:47) because what we want to do is go back to, have you perfected your images? (14:52) Did you get really good at that pin copy? (14:54) Did you get really good at hooking them in with a great stock image (14:59) that matches the content that you're doing, (15:01) which a lot of business owners have to use are stock images, right? (15:05) So am I getting good at connecting with the pinner in a quick way? (15:09) Number two, (15:10) do I know the keywords that I'm using that the algorithm is going to help (15:14) surface my content and getting really good at that? Clients who do well, (15:19) those are the two things they've mastered. (15:21) It's not so much how many pins per day, but it is consistency. (15:25) So if people come to me and they say, well, (15:26) I'm just really able to pin one per day.Great. That is totally fine. (15:31) If you're pinning one per day and you're getting really good at your images and (15:34) your keywords, that is a winning formula for me.(15:39) Yeah, that totally makes sense. (15:41) And I think a theme or (15:46) trend that I'm seeing as I am continuing to interview more podcast guests (15:51) is they're saying the same thing you are. (15:53) You need to create content consistently.Everyone is identifying. (15:58) That is what success looks like in each of their different levels of expertise is (16:02) that we have to be consistently communicating with our audience and putting (16:06) ourselves out there to continue to meet this cold audience and then bring them (16:11) in and have them get to know us through that email sequence or, (16:15) or whatever it is. (16:18) Good.(16:19) And then what is a practical tip that we can do today (16:24) to get better at Pinterest? (16:26) I would say number one, (16:28) if you haven't done it is look at your Pinterest profile or page. (16:32) The name is interchangeable and just make sure it reflects your business or your (16:36) brand. (16:36) A lot of people have this kind of mishmash of personal business, (16:40) or maybe they started an account ages ago and they haven't revisited it.(16:45) Go to your Pinterest account and make sure all your settings are correct. (16:48) Make sure all of your username or user profile, (16:52) it's all optimized for keywords. Your boards look how you want.(16:56) Take an hour, (16:57) just do that today and then do a full sweep or audit of your Pinterest account (17:01) and then get it up to speed. (17:03) And then from there begin to dial in your branding, (17:08) your images, like go to Canva or buy templates, (17:13) play around with it, get really good at that piece. (17:16) Cause what I find is that content is so exhausting, right? (17:20) And I think, (17:21) I think a little bit of it is exhausting because we've been just creating on (17:24) Instagram and then creating on our blog posts.(17:27) But for your blog posts, (17:29) what I would say is like figure out exactly like you're targeting, (17:33) like where you want to go with it, what you want to, you know, (17:37) really dial in those pieces and then create your (17:42) image with that. (17:43) And that's kind of where I was going with that is sometimes we've created our (17:46) content, (17:47) we've dialed in and we get to the image part and we're like, (17:50) I'll just slap this image up there. Like it's almost this afterthought, right? (17:54) But get really good at it and know that like this is an opportunity for you to (17:59) create an impact and have people know who you are and what you do just by the (18:03) branding on the images.It's like, (18:04) I know now if people come across my pins on Pinterest, (18:08) I have my signature color of red. I have their signature color of font. (18:11) I have our logo.There's a lot of things there. (18:14) So I would say two big wins right away that you could do is look at your (18:18) Pinterest profile, (18:20) optimize it completely and then go to your images and really nail it and (18:24) make sure that you, it's not an afterthought. (18:29) Yeah.Because that is part of the hook, especially on Pinterest, (18:32) which is such a visual platform. (18:35) Like obviously in copywriting, (18:36) the hook is super important because otherwise they're not going to read the rest (18:39) of it. But in Pinterest, especially that visual platform, (18:43) that image is part of the hook.(18:45) It's part of the thing that's drawing them in to click on it. (18:48) And then either go to your website or whatever it is. (18:52) Are you having them go and maybe this varies person to person.(18:55) I don't know if there's a general answer here. (18:57) Like have them go directly to an opt-in page where they're putting their email (19:02) in. Cause we're trying to build your email list or just go to a blog, (19:05) which gives them information and then invites them to the email list.(19:09) Is there a best practice there? (19:11) Yeah. We found that blog to email list works better. (19:13) We've tested it going directly to opt-in pages.(19:16) And unless you have a really like maxed out opt-in page that reads (19:21) more like a blog post that warms them up enough, gives them enough context, (19:25) then we find it doesn't convert as high as a blog post would. (19:29) A blog post converts way higher than an opt-in page. (19:33) I, yeah.I mean, (19:35) I guess that makes sense because they get more, (19:37) they get more of what they're looking for. And then they're like, Oh, (19:39) I want more. I'm going to opt in.Yeah. (19:43) And our key. So there's this blog post.(19:46) So then it's optimized for Google keywords. (19:48) Are Google keywords the same as Pinterest keywords or (19:53) are there nuances and differences to that keyword research? (19:58) Nuances and differences. (20:00) So sometimes there might be certain keywords that Google uses that Pinterest (20:04) does not.So there's two tools. I talked about the search bar a second ago, (20:08) but the second is going to be Pinterest trends. (20:11) And this is just, you can find it by going to trends.pinterest.com. (20:15) And what I like is it's country specific too.(20:18) I think there's like 17 different countries for people who might market other (20:22) places, which is good, (20:23) but you can see exactly what keywords and trends people are searching. (20:28) That's a good cross comparison with the search bar there with what Google has. (20:33) And I think it just depends.(20:34) You'd have to see by doing a search just to see if they are the same or (20:39) different. And if you have a, like a pillar keyword, (20:41) that's going to be pretty easy. You'll like figure it out.(20:44) But the example that I said earlier between plant-based and vegan, (20:47) that's where sometimes it's a little bit different and also preference too. (20:51) Like some people really don't want to write plant-based. (20:54) They only want to write vegan.(20:56) So it's a little bit what you're trying to target for, (20:59) but it can definitely be different. I don't find that it's crazy (21:04) different. It's pretty similar, but you always just want to check.(21:08) Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, good.I love it. I, I mean, (21:12) SEO I'm just always is like such a smart strategy. (21:16) If you're exhausted from playing the algorithm game, (21:19) like why not create, if you're going to be creating content, (21:22) why not create content that is going to live such a longer lifespan? (21:28) And Pinterest fits that bill.(21:29) And just even the blogs that are sitting on your website, (21:32) that Pinterest is just driving traffic to you're like, if you're creating blogs, (21:37) why not just put them on Pinterest too, you know? Right. It feels like a low lift. (21:41) Yeah, it does.And you know, (21:42) I was looking at my analytics the other day and I was starting to see a lot of (21:47) chat GPT driving traffic to my website. (21:50) So that's another thing too, is the SEO value of all of that. (21:55) Now, (21:55) one thing to note too is chat GPT will not give good Pinterest advice.(22:00) We've noticed that like it doesn't give good Pinterest marketing advice. (22:04) It's really off. It doesn't use the same words.(22:06) I don't think it's updated since like 22 or something like that. (22:09) So don't search it for that, (22:12) but definitely know that like all the SEO value is going towards these search (22:17) engines that are trying to find you. (22:19) And Pinterest is a search engine.Like it just is. (22:25) Yeah. That's funny.I actually see that chat GPT is one, (22:27) it's a major driver to my website as well. I was like, Oh, (22:31) I was not expecting that. (22:33) But all that SEO value that I've created is probably.(22:38) Yeah. It's like where they're going to get the information. (22:41) Yeah.Crazy. Oh my goodness. Okay.(22:43) This conversation was so illuminating. (22:46) And I feel like Pinterest is just the, I don't know, (22:50) like the underdog or like people it's like a second, like the afterthought. (22:53) And it's just like, wait, (22:54) it could be such a low lift to like get more traffic to your website, (22:57) especially if you're already producing a blog or producing a podcast that could (23:01) be a blog and you know, just quickly and easily repurpose it.(23:06) One of the things that we do is build a copywriting system. (23:09) So if like you're already creating that pillar content, (23:12) like let's make it a blog, let's make it an email, (23:16) let's make it a pin so that you don't have to do anything else, (23:20) but your content is being seen and being searched for on all these different (23:24) places. (23:25) So that all that precious time and energy and thought power and thought (23:29) leadership that you put into creating this content just gets more (23:34) lasting value.And like you said before, like it gives you data. (23:38) So then you know what's working, what's not, (23:41) what should we continue talking about? (23:43) What's not resonating and things like that. (23:46) Yeah.And it's so much more. I mean, (23:49) I will say I go into my Instagram analytics and I think I saw the other day and (23:54) I have, we pulled way back on using Instagram because when we looked at the (23:57) numbers, (23:58) one of the things for our business was we realized we were spending 20 hours a (24:02) month on Instagram, (24:03) creating reels from our main pillar content or creating all these things. (24:09) And we were getting maybe 20 sessions to our website a (24:13) month.And then over here on Pinterest, (24:16) we were creating content by very similar. (24:19) Like sometimes it's just a standalone image. (24:22) It doesn't always have to be short form video.(24:24) And we were spending 10 hours a month and we were getting seven to 800 sessions (24:29) a month. And it's like, well, that's a no brainer. (24:33) You have this exactly what we're looking for.(24:36) And there's ways that I want to warm up my audience and Instagram really isn't (24:41) the tool that I want to use for that. I want to use my email list. (24:45) So I know there's some people who are really successful at it and there's a way (24:48) to share more of your story over there and that's great.And that has a place, (24:53) but if I'm just looking for driving conversions, (24:56) this is where I want to be. (24:58) And it's where I want my content to also have a long (25:02) shelf life. You know, (25:04) there's things that I've pinned back in 2017 and that how to clean up Pinterest (25:08) boards.It was a very simple tutorial that has still (25:13) drives the majority of my traffic today, you know, (25:16) and it's like what eight years later it's like crazy, (25:21) but it's still working for me. (25:23) And I think that's the thing that I want to leave people with too, (25:26) is that Pinterest can be very frustrating. (25:28) So while Instagram has a lot of dopamine hits and it feels like it's working, (25:34) Pinterest is so much more of a slower burn.(25:36) So if you're going to do that thing of cleaning up your Pinterest account, (25:40) and then you're going to go ahead and you're going to get your images squared (25:43) away, give yourself six to nine months of investment, (25:47) really look at it in 2025 and say, this is an initiative for me. (25:50) I'm going to use Pinterest and I'm just going to use it in this year to (25:55) learn. Are my people there? Can I get people coming from Pinterest? (26:00) What do my Pinterest users like? (26:02) It's not going to take a huge amount of effort, (26:04) but it is going to take adding another element to your whole marketing, (26:08) but set your sights.I would even set it at the end of the 2025, (26:13) just say this is something I'm going to test for this year and see how it works. (26:17) Because people who come to me, they say, Kate, (26:19) I've done all the things and it's not working. (26:22) And I usually say, how long have you invested in it? And they're like six weeks.(26:25) I'm like, okay, well, you're gonna have to go longer. (26:29) This is how it works. And I get it.It's, it's not, (26:32) there's no likes or hearts or anything like that, but keep going. (26:36) Yeah. Yeah.Instagram has trained us to, you know, (26:40) if we don't check back in the next couple minutes and there's not a like, (26:44) then it's not working and it just, it doesn't work that way. (26:47) And I love like even just your personal example of like, (26:49) you are still reaping benefits from eight years ago. (26:53) Like what are your Instagram posts from eight years ago doing for you? (26:56) They are just buried and lost and probably have a terrible filter on them.(27:00) Yes, exactly. (27:04) Awesome. Good.Well, (27:05) this has been so insightful and just feels like a quick win and, (27:09) and a low lift to like, if you're already creating content anyways, (27:13) why not just see if this works for you to continue to build your email list, (27:18) which is always a good idea to continue to send more traffic to, (27:22) to your stuff, which is always a good idea. Never, you know, (27:25) never heard anybody. So, um, if people, (27:28) if listeners are interested in learning more about you interested in learning (27:32) more about this Pinterest thing, taking it seriously, (27:35) where is the best place to connect? (27:37) Yeah.Best place is simple pin media.com. And then on our newsletter, (27:42) we send it out every single Wednesday. It's called Pinterest made simple. (27:45) And this is just simple videos, (27:48) podcast or any news that Pinterest has had like latest updates.(27:51) It's like literally a five minute read. (27:53) So you can get that by going to simple pin media.com slash newsletter. (27:57) Perfect.And that is all in the show notes for you as well. Perfect. (28:01) Thank you so much.Thank you. (28:03) Thank you for tuning into the values first marketing podcast. (28:07) If you've been enjoying these episodes, (28:08) I'd love it if you left a review on Apple podcasts, (28:11) it helps more purpose-driven business owners like you find this show.(28:14) And reminds me that this work is making a difference. (28:18) And if you're ready to market your business in a way that feels aligned, (28:21) sustainable, and true to you say hello on Instagram at Megan Kachigan, (28:26) then head over to my website, (28:28) MeganKachigan.com for free resources and next steps to simplify your marketing (28:32) and copywriting without sacrificing your authentic voice or too much (28:37) of your time. I'll see you in the next episode.