How to Email More Without Annoying Your Audience with Holly Haynes

Email marketing is one of the most talked-about growth tools in online business. And yet… So many smart founders struggle to do it consistently. If you’ve ever thought:

• “If I email more, people will unsubscribe.”
• “Three emails a week sounds like too much.”
• “I don’t want to annoy my list.”

This episode will challenge some assumptions in the most refreshing way. We’re following up with one of our most downloaded guest episodes ever and we’re going deeper.

Last time, Holly Haynes shared how owning her brand voice doubled her revenue. In this episode, we unpack what that actually looks like now — specifically how she’s refined her email marketing strategy (with open rates at 52%), leaned further into segmentation, and committed even more intentionally to building a social media optional business.

In This Episode, We Talk About:

• What’s changed (and what hasn’t) in Holly’s 3–5 email per week rhythm
• How to make high-frequency emailing feel personal and still increase open rates
• What she’s doubling down on (instead of expanding to more platforms)
• What a “micro-partnership” actually looks like (and why it’s more powerful than chasing more opportunities)
• The shift from dopamine-driven visibility to data-driven growth
• Where her traffic and clients are really coming from (hint: not social media)

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Listen to Holly’s first episode: How Owning Her Brand Voice Doubled Her Revenue
• Join Holly's 3-Day Anti-Social Reset 
• Get Holly’s free Ditch the Social Drama workshop

➡️ SHOW NOTES: Grab all the links and resources mentioned in this episode on the blog here! https://www.megankachigan.com/how-often-should-i-email-my-list-holly-haynes/

FREE RESOURCE: Copy not converting? Increase your conversion rate in 5-minutes a day when you join my free 5-day challenge “Why Isn’t This Converting?”

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*Note: Some of these may contain affiliate links. If you make a purchase (not required), I may get a small commission. I only recommend people, products, and programs I truly believe in and have seen results from. 

Did you see Kit’s new email marketing update?! 👀

The 2026 update tells you more about who your subscribers actually are so you can personalize your email marketing. And the Kit MCP makes it so easy to update and manage your email list all from your favorite AI tool. 

Dive into these new features (and more) when you switch over to Kit.
It’s so worth it!

Let's stay connected! Get exclusive behind-the-scenes access and a direct line to my inbox when you join my email community at https://www.megankachigan.com/email

Transcript

Copy

We are back with a very special guest who was one of our most downloaded episodes on the podcast last year.
 She shared how owning her brand voice doubled her revenue. And now she is back to take that conversation even deeper and is even getting specific on exactly where she's going all in.
 She has helped female entrepreneurs build scalable life-first businesses, retired herself and her husband in just two years, and has been featured by Entrepreneur, ConvertKit, and HoneyBook.
 She is also the brilliant mind behind Crush the Rush, Anti-Social School, and Ditch the Social Drama Workshop, which are all resources I genuinely recommend.
 So I am so excited to welcome back the Holly Haynes. Hi, thank you so much for having me.

I am so excited for this conversation because it was, yes, that's an honor in itself.

And just like genuinely, I just felt like your first episode was so generous. Obviously, our audience loved it, and the data shows that as well.
 So to quickly recap, last year on your episode, which is also linked in the show notes, which definitely should go listen to, but you share the super smart way that you're leaning into your authentic brand voice to really create that messaging across emails, SEO, your podcast, sales pages.
 And that's instead of relying solely on social media, which I know a lot of my audience is a love-hate.
 We feel like we have to be there, but do we really? And so you created this sustainable content strategy that really engages your audience and reinforces your expertise.
 And I think for me, especially as someone who is on the inside of a lot of multi-six and seven-figure businesses as a copywriter behind the scenes, I've seen a lot of marketing strategies, but your system really impressed me with how systematized it is, how much it makes sense, how well you know your audience.
 You shared the three to four emails a week that your audience actually loves to read. And I think so many people think three to four per week, that's too much.
 I don't want to annoy them. But that's not it. That's not what we have going on here. And so how strategic it is, it keeps you top of mind without taking all of your time.
 So what does that look like now? What has stayed the same? What over the past year or what inspired any changes you have made?

Yeah, well, it's actually very similar. I think, you know, when I talk about emails, they're sort of like the top of funnel, which is like getting people to your email list.
 And that has changed a little bit. But like once they're on our list, it's actually stayed the same, but we've gone a little bit deeper.
 And so I'll explain what that means. And so this means somebody's on your list. They're like, they've already gone through like a freebie or something.
 And now we're either selling or getting to know them better or sharing or whatever we're doing in our email at the time.
 And so I still follow the same process. And that is I come up with like, what's our what's our goal for the month?
 Are we launching? Are we nurturing? Are we partnering? Like, what does that look like?
 And then we're still sending three to five emails. And I checked before I got on this in our open rate right now is 52%. So I feel like it's pretty good with a large list.
 And so typically. And I don't know if this is exactly the same, but typically on Mondays, we'll send some sort of personal story and like a little bit about our podcast episode that aired.
 I don't go into all the details about the podcast, more of like, if you want to learn more, go listen kind of thing.
 And so that's definitely been structured. We still send our hand raiser emails sometimes twice a week. So that's where like the four-ish emails come around.
 And if you need like a refresh on what a hand raiser is, think of it as like a one-word Instagram post, but an email.
 So it's like share something. And then if you want more reply support or something like that, those have worked really well because that's helped us really lean into just getting to know people better.
 Friday is our Better Together newsletter. That's still very much stayed the same.
 And then occasionally I'll layer in like partnership emails or like things that I'm loving or just things that make sense.
 And so it's ironic because this morning I was writing our emails for the month. And I was like, huh, is this too many?
 Like, I still ask the question, like, is it too many? And then I look at our data and I think I just like trained our audience that like each day of the week is like a different email.
 And one of the things that we have done is really segmented a little bit differently. So if you read our Friday newsletter, you'll see like in the newsletter, it will say, if you only want to hear from us once a week, click here.
 So if you're like, you know what, Holly, I like your stuff, but like, I don't need all these emails, then we're giving you the choice to choose like how often you want to hear from us.
 So if we're in a launch, or we're sharing, you know, a very specific topic over a couple of weeks, we'll put a little note in there of like, if this doesn't interest you right now, great, click here, and we'll remove you, but still keep you on.
 So we're trying to do like, what's the ad lib style where you can like, choose your own path or like, what's the Choose your own adventure. Yeah, like choose your own adventure inside our email world.
 And so that's really helped a lot because some people, some people will read my emails and be like, I just want to know what she's doing and how she's doing it.
 I do that too. I have folders where I'll just put like, oh, it's a great email. I'm going to save that.
 And so you can learn from them. So some people are really into it. Some people are in it because they're reading them and are like, I want this.
 And then other people are like, I'm not, I don't want this right now. Like, I don't need this. And so we've been going a little bit deeper with our segmentation.
 And then something else that we've done, especially when it comes to like launches and really trying to take people on our list to like the next level is like, I'll call it like segmented sales.
 So like in December, as an example, we had a sale for our membership, but we only sent it to people who had one shown interest, which means they clicked on something or they had gone through a funnel that supported that level of, of the product, I guess.
 So it didn't go to everybody. And so we've been really playing around with like, how do we make this a custom experience?
 And how do we make it like personal? Like I'm still sharing very personal things, but like you get to choose, choose your own adventure kind of thing.
 I love that.

That's really smart. I think underutilized because everyone, I feel like so many people are like scraping together, but I need to like, I should be emailing once a week.
 I should, should, should. And like one, like what is a good rhythm for you? But then once you do get that rhythm down, as you have like making it not too, not too much, I don't know. Air quotes there for all the listeners who are on audio and can't see.

Well, and the nice thing is, is, I mean, I'm very predictable. That's our brand. We're very systematized and planned.
 So that's like not a surprise. So like. The Monday emails look very similar and feel very similar. They have different content.
 But like once you get your formula down, you can like dig in and make them customize.
 So like, you know, the first step might be, okay, well, what do I want my newsletter to look like? Or what do I want my like hand raiser to look like?
 And then after you have that, then you can lean in and say, okay, well, if I only want to send hand raiser emails to this group, like what would that look like?
 So then you can add in that like segmentation on top of that.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, okay, that makes sense. So this is great for, so like email is your home base. Like that is where everything is happening.
 Why commit even further instead of diversifying more?

Yeah, well, in our program, Antisocial School, I always talk about having a home base. And I would say email, everyone should have email.
 Like you just should, like you have to. You own it, like it's your voice.
 You When I say home base, I mean, pick another platform that's not social that you can share what you are doing on.
 And so I think going into this year, a couple of platforms that stand out to me and by platforms, I mean, not social media, because to me, social media is I set up our business for it to be optional.
 So if I want to share on it, great. I can repurpose. It's there. If I don't, no big deal.
 But I want it to be something that I own. So like podcasting is our sort of like home base this year. Like that's what we're going all in. And then email supports that.
 I've seen a lot of growth around YouTube. Now, some people might be like, YouTube is very social. And I would agree.
 However, to me, YouTube is something that you can plan ahead. You can schedule. And there is either probably is an algorithm or will be. But for right now, it feels like I can control it. A little bit. search engine. Yeah, with the search engine.
 And so I feel like YouTube could be a great home base. Podcasting could be a great home base. If you like to write, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners do, Substack is very popular right now.
 Blogging is very popular. And these are all home bases where you can share very long form content. And then that can get repurposed into email and to social and other places.
 And so I like to pick one and really go all in. It doesn't mean that you can't repurpose in other places.
 I was sharing in our community the other day, like repurpose with a purpose. I joke that right now, I think our podcast episode goes to like 17 different places, but it didn't start that way.
 And each platform is very different. So I would rather you go all in on like one platform that feels really good and you're learning that platform and your content matches that.
 As opposed to repurposing like a hundred different times and like nothing is happening and you're like Holly but I'm repurposing and I'm not on social but I'm not growing and it's like well you're you're not all in like you've got to be all in on like one thing so that we can nail that and then once we do that then we can add on another.

Yeah yeah I think it's a huge temptation for people to want to do all of the things or feel like I you know I I really want to get this going or hit my next level of revenue so I need to be everywhere do all the things push push push and then it just kind of spreads them thin and burns them out and then they're not able to one enjoy their business or their life you know.
 Um so this is so smart to like really choose one um I love the idea of like starting with your long form content and then you can repurpose as much as you want from there um how did you choose which platform deserved to be what your home base and what data mattered most in that decision?

well, I mean, I'd like to say that I had very intentional philosophy around picking it. But if I'm being honest, I started the podcast.
 That was like the first thing that I started in my business. And I just really liked it. So I was like, that's something that I could be really consistent with.
 And so when I walk my clients through it in antisocial school, I'm like, pick something that feels fun to you because you're going to be doing it a lot.
 Like if you hate writing, Substack is not the place to hang out. Like if you don't like talking, then, you know, talking on three podcasts a week is not the strategy, right?
 So I always go back to like, what do you enjoy doing? And then we can match the platform to what that looks like.
 And then we can match the repurposing strategy to what feels good and where your audience is hanging out.
 So I have a lot of clients who, yes, their clients are on LinkedIn. But I guarantee that they're somewhere else.
 I joke because my girls are, I have twins who are 12 and they occasionally will watch YouTube. And guess what? Now all of a sudden I'm paying attention to YouTube more.
 And so I'm like, oh, this is interesting. Like, I wonder how many of my clients are like, you know, side eye watching YouTube like with their kids.
 And so there's definitely another platform besides social that will match your style. You just kind of have to figure out what that is.
 Yeah.

Yeah, totally. And I love that you're saying like, what do you enjoy? Like, why do we ask ourselves that more often in business?
 I think we hear like the guru saying, you have to do this, you have to do that. And they put you in this cookie cutter kind of templated thing that because it works for them.
 But we never consider, well, what actually works for us and our personality and our gifts and our talents and our life season and stage.
 So yeah, we are totally on the same page there.
 I think the flip side of that coin that I see is that like, Okay, it makes sense. I'm going to go all in on one platform and really like master that before like adding on.
 But I think there's a like micro grief of like, but that means I'm saying no to doing this other thing.
 So how do you get comfortable with like letting those other things go, letting social media go?
 Because I think a lot of people feel like I don't love it, but it feels like a lifeline for my business. How do I let that go? Yeah.

I mean, if you're, I always say if you're making money on Instagram or social and it's a lifeline of your business, like don't let it go, but maybe slowly add in something else so that if it does disappear, you have an option B.
 So I would never tell somebody if you're making money on something to stop doing it, but maybe we come up with like another path.
 So there's like two paths and then you could like alternate depending on like what's going on in your world.
 But the other thing I will say is if, if you are doing a lot on social and it's maybe not getting you the results that you want.
 Like what if you tried something different for like 90 days or even 30 days?
 Like could you set a timeline of being like, okay, instead of posting five times a week, I'm going to post two times a week and I'm going to use that extra time to build like a different path and see how that feels in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
 So it doesn't mean that you have to like do it forever, but I love quarters. To me, quarters feels just very doable.
 And so it's like, well, what if I just really leaned into blogging for 90 days? Like how would that feel?
 Or what if I just flipped my model to say, okay, I'm going to write two long form blog posts a month and then I'm going to turn those into, let's just say carousel posts or something else.
 So I have a very strategic content plan. I may be still posting on social, but it's like the second step instead of the first step.
 And so we're like very slowly flipping your business model.
 And I think a lot of times too, when I talk about the antisocial strategy, like social media is meant to give you a very quick dopamine hit.
 Like you got it out there, you posted it, you did something today, you feel good, somebody liked it, like your friend liked it, and you're like, great.
 But I would be curious, like, what's the data? Like, what's the data telling you of what you're doing?
 And so I always say, like, go back and look at your data. Where'd your clients come from? How did they find you? What are they looking at? And then make decisions off of that.

Yeah, I think that really nails it is we just want that dopamine hit. And it's just so normalized in our culture now to like, yeah, I mean, everyone does.

Everyone's like, oh, I posted it. feels great. So then I'm like, well, why don't you create like your own dopamine hit of like, okay, I checked off three things on my list.
 I wrote two blog posts. I repurposed one thing. I formed one partnership and like flip the model a little bit.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's good. Okay. And so you're talking about forming a partnership, and that's one of the things you mentioned, these micro-partnerships instead of maybe like big visibility at play.
 So define that for us. Give us an example. What does a micro-partnership look like, and how does that work? Yeah.

I sort of made up this term when I was explaining in our mastermind what I was doing behind the scenes, and I was like, oh, this really kind of describes it.
 So I think when people hear partnership, they think of like sponsor, or like big launches, or like complex timelines, or like lots of coordination.
 And so to me, a micro-partnership is very intentional and very relational.
 So I would say like what we're doing right now is a micro-partnership, because you reached out to me and said like, hey, would you want to come back on the podcast?
 But you were very intentional about how you did it. Like you had some thoughts on like what would benefit your audience the most.
 And like how my audience would benefit the most.
 So, you know, in return, I'll share this podcast interview because I think my audience would benefit it.
 You're going to share it to your podcast interview listeners.
 And then we also have some things happening behind the scenes that we've like talked about and planned.
 And it wasn't just like, hey, can you come on my podcast?
 Or a lot of times I'll hear somebody say like, hey, let's do a lead magnet swap, which I love. Like they work great.
 But if you can just go a little bit deeper into the relationship and figure out like, well, what is Megan's audience really want?
 And like, how can I transition the topic that I'm good at speaking at to be like really great for her audience?
 And then, you know, Megan, you can think about, well, what makes the most sense for Holly? And like, how is that a win for her?
 And so I think it's really going like really deep instead of like, let me get, you know, 17 more interviews.
 Like, what if you have one really good one and it's super aligned and there's, you know, an email. And there's some intention and there's like launch support.
 And it's just, it starts with like a conversation.
 And so one of the things that I'm telling my clients is like, if you can find somebody with a lookalike audience, which I would argue ours is, I don't teach copywriting.
 And just have a conversation, like just have a brainstorm session of like, hey, like, what does your audience want right now?
 Or what's actually working? Or where are your clients getting stuck?
 And then, you know, what comes out of that?
 Maybe it's not a podcast interview, but it could be like a shared resource or it could be like a video series or it could be a podcast or a lead magnet swap, but it's just very intentional and the timing is intentional.
 And so you're just doing it the right way instead of like the volume way, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I think, I don't know, maybe it's like our bro marketing conditioning from the early, like 2020 days of like.
 Well, like numbers matter. The more people that you reach out to, the odds are better that like you are going to get a client or, you know, but I agree with you that like the numbers, like maybe they don't hurt, but I think being more intentional about the relationships and like you said, finding that lookalike audience is potentially going to take less of your time than reaching out to a a bunch of people.
 And no one loves that like kind of cold reach out.
 But if you reach out to a handful of people that are warm, and you maybe have some sort of a relationship with them, and you say like, here's why I really would love to have this partnership with you.
 Here's how it benefits, like you said, it benefits you, it benefits me, it benefits both of our audiences. That feels a lot better.

Yeah, and I think the other thing too is, if it works well, you can do it again.
 So I think a lot of times people are like, well, I already shared her. Like, don't want to share it again.
 And I'm like, no, you should. Like, I have a couple of friends that, like, are really aligned with our audience.
 And now, like, my audience knows them.
 So, like, if they have something coming up, I'll be like, hey, it's that time of year again where Sally is doing XYZ.
 And you guys know I love Sally.
 And so it feels like, you know, it's like they're growing with you.
 And so I think it's just, you don't have to do it one time. Like, create a longer relationship.
 And, you know, there's obviously, like, benefits to both of you when you're valuing, like, the sustainability maybe over the speed.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. What do you think these micro-partnerships have allowed you to do that, like, social media just couldn't really offer?

Well, it saves me a lot of time.
 So I mentioned, like, today is my writing day. So, like, this morning, I had a two-hour block.
 And I was, like, writing emails for this month. And... I didn't write one social post, like not one.
 That's probably like two to four hours of time that I just saved, right?
 Now, I do have a list of like people that I've partnered with that I want to make sure I incorporate or highlight and things like that.
 So I am paying attention to that. So I've almost like shifted the time a little bit.
 I will say one of the other cool things is like if you don't want to launch a lot this year and you do still want to be very visible, like there's a lot of power behind, I'll say affiliate marketing, but I don't mean it that way.
 I mean like if there's somebody in your world that's launching something that you know that your audience can benefit from, like it can benefit you too.
 So it wasn't my intention, but like we have a decent amount of affiliate income that has come in because we have formed these like really long form, long-term partnerships that we've just created over the years.
 And so I think that's been. And like really fun to, to follow through with.
 But it's a huge time saver. I mean, it's, and also I would say it's so much easier for me personally to get and talk on a podcast for a half hour than it is to make like 15 reels.
 But for some people, they might not love podcasting, but think about what you do like to do and like how to, you know, what does that align with for you?
 Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Is there anything that like surprised you the most when you stopped social media and really went all in with email marketing and podcasting and these micropartnerships?

Well, I mean, the biggest statistic is, so we started this like email strategy in 2022 in May.
 And I actually have a podcast episode on it.
 And our revenue doubled, like doubled because that's where my audience was.
 I found the place that I could use my voice and I could be really consistent.
 And, you know, I have two different types of clients.
 I have some clients that, like, want to be on social, but they just don't want it to be the main thing.
 And I would say, I like to say I run a social media optional business.
 So, like, I did post stories today, but I had time today and it was fun.
 Like, I feel like I have a good relationship with it.
 But then, like, two weeks ago, I didn't even open the app for, like, a while.
 Like, was just, like, I need a break.
 And so, you could do it that way or you could just, like, not be on it at all.
 And so, yeah, I think it just kind of depends on the path that you want.
 But that's the biggest one is revenue.
 Like, I can really tap into my audience whenever I choose.
 And that's what, like, email and our home base being podcasting has allowed us to do.
 Mm-hmm.

That feels so, like, refreshing of a reframe that, like, it's not that you have to be off social.
 I feel like antisocial. Media people is like, get off.

Like, everyone has to get off.

And it's like, it doesn't have to, like, if it actually brings you joy and, or if it brings you revenue, then like, you don't have to get off.
 But there's, like you said, ways to not necessarily make it your main driver of business. Yeah.

And I mean, I mentioned that I have twin daughters who are 12.
 And I would say that the tween years of social media is very interesting.
 And so for me personally, like, I want to be a role model for like, you don't need to be on your phone.
 And it's very hard. Like, it's super hard right now to be like, even though all your friends have it, or you don't need a phone, even though all this is happening.
 And so I think, you know, there's some personal stories behind why we run our business the way we do.
 But I don't, to me, it's just the freedom of not having to be tied to an app, which just feels really good.
 Yeah, totally.

That is a very refreshing and like very real picture of like what sustainable leadership online and in this online space can look like in this season of business.
 Like that is super important to me as well. And my kids are a little bit younger, but something I want to set the precedent with now.
 Is there something that you're most excited to build this year because you've chosen this depth? Yeah, that's such a fun question.

So we're really leaning into SEO.
 And when I say SEO, we're leaning into like SEO from like subject lines because we use Kit and Kit has like a searchable newsletter function.
 So you can make your newsletter public. And so it's like, OK, well, people can now find me through Kit. Like, let's make sure it's findable.
 We're also doing things like with our podcast where we have like pop ups on our website.
 Where people can like dive into like very specific podcast playlists.
 We're doing more blogs and this is really related to ChatGPT.
 I can't remember we talked about this on your last episode, but right now, and I'm not an expert in AI, but right now ChatGPT is rewarding those and recommending those who have quality volume content.
 So if I have, you know, blogs written from our podcast and blogs written about different topics and ChatGPT recognizes that, then we start getting recommended through ChatGPT.
 And guess what? Everyone's using ChatGPT. It's like the new Google.
 So those are things that we're like really leaning into right now of like, how can we take what we have and just make it even better and make it even more customized, but also searchable.

Yeah, I love that. That's so smart.
 When I did my, I did an episode on 20. 26 predictions. I said, blogging is all the, you know, 2009, 2010 bloggers are so excited, like blogging.
 I don't think it was ever like dead, quote unquote.

No.

I think it's making a stronger comeback. And that is, I think, one of the primary reasons is.

And I don't even share half the blogs that I write.
 Like, they just sit there. Like, they just are kind of like the very quiet little engine behind the scenes.
 Like, we barely, barely ever link them. It's just when people search things, which they are searching. Yeah.

What are the top two or three, like, sources of traffic where people are getting your, onto your email list from? Yeah.

Google search is number one.
 It depends on the month, but I would say, like, affiliates and referrals are number two.
 And then the podcast is number three.
 And so I would say, if you were to summarize that, that's SEO. Searchable things, high-quality content, and, like, human relationships. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that's so good.

Yeah, it's really fun. It's very rewarding when you can, like, look at your Google Analytics and you're like, yes, it's working.
 It's not like that, like, like that you get on, like, a really fun reel, but it's similar. It's similar.
 Mm-hmm.

Yes. More people need that to be their dopamine hit than the Instagram reel likes or whatever it is these days. That's so good.
 So I love that. I feel like a lot of people are spouting off about, like, saying these tips in general, but yours is really based on, like, this is our data.
 This is our evidence. Like, this is really, like, what's truly working for us right now.
 So thank you so much in your generosity and, like, being totally open and sharing what's working for you.
 And, like, the great thing is that, like, our, like, the listeners here, like, you can totally do this for yourself, too.

Very doable. Totally, absolutely doable.

So good. And then we'll end with what is a small joy outside of business that is fueling you right now?

Yeah, such a fun question.
 So I'm not a big fan of New Year's resolutions. I actually joke that I don't think my New Year's starts to like March.
 So we're like, we're still in it.
 But one of my friends had this like New Year's maybe goal where it was like, just pick one thing that you want to do this year.
 And it has to be like really fun.
 And so I was like, I just want to cook more. That's it.
 Like, I'm just going to lean into like cooking more.
 And so over Christmas, we got these like new, like super healthy pans that you see online.
 And I was like, okay, like we're going to cook more, like clean up the cabinets.
 And so it's been really fun.
 We've made like some really fun recipes. We're in like soup season right now.
 And then the girls and I made cakes.
 We've been watching a lot of like decorating like food. Shows and like decorating shows.
 So we've been making like custom cakes and like buttercream.
 And I don't know, it's a good like winter activity. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, that's awesome. That sounds super fun. And it's fun that it's something you can do together with your girls as well.
 Yeah, it's been fun.

Awesome.

And then I know you have some fun things back on the business conversation coming up that I'm very excited about for you is tell us about your reset you have happening.

Yeah, so this is actually brand new.
 And so I feel like this is like such amazing timing. And I'm so honored to be back on the podcast.
 But a lot of times I get feedback of like social media feels really heavy right now.
 But like, I don't know if I could step away or like, what do I actually do if I do step away?
 And so we put together a three day antisocial reset challenge.
 And so we're going to hold you accountable. It's just three days.
 So you're going to survive to like actually. Log off the app and then use that time to work with me and my team to come up with your antisocial strategy.
 So we're going to like celebrate that we're going to get some time back.
 So regardless, you're going to just like have a reset there, but then we're going to lean in.
 And I mentioned that your your home base is very custom. And so it's like figuring out what is that for you.
 And then I actually have a strategy that I teach where we map it out.
 So we'll draw like visuals for you and show you like, OK, if people come in here, like then what happens and how do I nurture them and how does it turn into sales?
 And so it's very robust, but you're going to save time.
 And I feel like it it's very aligned with things that are going on in the world right now.
 I feel like if we just like all came together in a really like fun community group and just took a break from the noise, like how great would that feel both for you and your business?
 Yeah, I love that.

I think it feels so empowering and to know that you're doing it with a community of people, because I think a lot of people.
 People are like subconsciously or somewhere in the back of their mind, like very scared of leaving social media.
 You know, it's kind of like you're leaving the friend group or this sense of belonging because it's so public facing.
 But actually, I love how you shared there's actually so much more reward when you use that time differently and build your business in a different way and really get deep with that long form content.
 And yeah, to be able to do it in a wonderful community that you've already curated for this Reset Challenge, I'm very excited for it.
 And listeners, definitely click on the link in show notes. That is already linked right for you there to go register.
 Yeah, so definitely come register.

It's going to be really fun. And I feel like it's, I don't know, I think we all need it right now.
 So yeah, join us.

Yeah, it's going to feel so refreshing.
 Well, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and what's working in real time for you.
 We appreciate your support. Generosity and sharing with us.
 And I hope that we will see you all in the reset and around from there.
 Yeah, thank you so much for having me.